SPECIAL SERIES CRE Brokerage Training with co-host Brett Swarts with Jon Dwoskin

When Jon turned 43, he made a career out of being himself. He is an executive advisor, business coach, sales coaching, training, and management coaching, training keynotes, and Founder/Chief Executive Officer of The Jon Dwoskin Experience.

He’s been called the “business whisperer” because he can see what you cannot see and hear what you cannot hear at your company. His passion extends to myriad non-profit organizations including sitting on the board of Hebrew Free Loan and, as an 18-year cancer survivor, being a mentor with Imerman Angels.

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SPECIAL SERIES CRE Brokerage Training with co-host Brett Swarts with Jon Dwoskin

Brett:

Welcome everybody to a joint kind of podcast/workshop. My name is Brett I’m the host of the Capital Gains Tax, which is a podcast, also a Commercial Real Estate Broker with eXp, I’m with my good friend, Jon Dwoskin. Jon, can you introduce yourself.

Jon:

Hey, I’m Jon Dwoskin. I am a business coach. And I work with solopreneurs, to fortune 100 companies, and everything in between, and used to be in the commercial real estate space for about 13 years. And you and I decided to kind of jump on and do this interactive workshop. So I’m looking forward to it.

Brett:

Absolutely. And Jon is being modest there, he was a manager of the number one or one of the top real estate, investment firms Marcus & Millichap. And that’s actually part of our beginning with myself as well in my training, we learned a lot of Marcus and Millichap, Jon about what to do, how to close deals, I could say it’s like the Navy Seals of the investment brokerage business. And it’s the foundation of my entire career learned a lot of great things. And so we’re gonna be talking about the fundamentals of commercial real estate brokers, just a few things we obviously can’t cover too much. But the first one, Jon, is the value of representation. Yeah, Jon, when, when you hear that what comes to mind? And what is, as a commercial real estate broker, or somebody who’s looking to level up their game? What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the value of representation?

Jon:

Yeah, well, I think when you’re when you’re talking about a value prop, it’s really, really important to connect to a couple of things. One, the value is based on benefits, not features. I think many salespeople sell in features versus benefits. And so I think it’s, that’s first and foremost is really kind of like saying, as I speak, am I speaking value benefits? Or am I speaking of features, which don’t really work? Next, what type of value am I actually bringing to the table? Meaning am I are people able to understand and quantify, what I’m saying? Next is understanding kind of the benefits of you and the benefits of the company. They go hand in hand, sometimes people weigh too much on themselves. And they’re important, but they need to talk to be able to talk about why them and why the company. And here’s a really big one to the importance of speaking in stories. Too many times, we learn through stories and lessons and through clients’ perspectives. And so we don’t necessarily want to talk about, Hey, I think this and I think this and you should do that. If we’re doing all the things that we just talked about, then the conversation and the consciousness in the frequency in the vibration of that talk is much higher.

Brett:

Absolutely. So you talked about features and benefits, right. And then talking and seeing things in stories, as well as not just selling yourself, but selling the entire company, right. And the other part about the value, the value piece, something I learned early on a Marcus & Millichap, was one of the mentors in the office. And he said, the moment you know more about a person’s property that you’re calling on, or about some properties next door or something that’s going to solve their challenge, that’s the moment you start to add value to that person that you’re reaching out to, that you’re trying to represent, it’s the value of representation, meaning that you have a chance to actually solve a problem. So talk about that Jon when you first started out, or when you’re training brokers in your office, with cold calling, and reaching out and connecting with somebody tell us how detailed and specialized everyone was?

Jon:

Well, I think I think one of the things that’s important to remember, Brett is that the goal of a cold call is simply to get a meeting. And you know, it’s nice to be able to say where we are right now that meetings are back. We’re in this and pandemic, where meetings, people are starting to go on meetings again, which is great. I mean, I’m loving it, and I’m loving it for people because I think people are really missing it. But to be able to articulate what you specialize in, and how you can specifically help someone, I think starts with a lot of the questions that you ask to position yourself as an expert. And so it’s not necessarily telling. It’s asking and understanding the questions that get the conversation moving. So people know you’re an expert just through the questions that you actually ask. If I do it right. I don’t have to tell I’m an expert, it shows through my questions and then my backup questions because I understand what I’m talking about. And then I can not only answer, what’s coming at me but I can also kind of incorporate a lot of my expertise, as I answer a question.

Brett:

So in the beginning, when you don’t necessarily A know the questions or B have the track record, right, and you’re just trying to get your business going Jon, what were the questions that were asked? Are you are you? Are you encouraging the brokers who are getting trained to ask? And how are they leveraging their mentors, right to be able to move the business forward to get that meeting, because you’re right, the goal, the cold calls to get a meeting, right. And the beginning of my career, biggest one of the biggest mistakes I was having, as I was trying to have a meeting on the phone. I’m so excited about this new piece of knowledge that I know or this deal that clothes are these ways to raise rents. So this way to market better, there’s tax deferral strategy, or whatever. And I’m just telling the whole meeting on the phone, and they’re on the other line going, Wow, this guy gives me some really cool stuff. Great. I’m gonna take that to my other guy over here that they already know, or my CPA or whatever, right? Thanks for the value and boom, hang up, right? So connect that, of asking the question, listening for the window of opportunity, and then leveraging the mentor to get the meeting.

Jon:

Well, I’m gonna work backward, because leveraging the mentor is where it really starts. If you don’t have a mentor, you gotta get a mentor. And if you can’t get a mentor, then you need to hire a coach. Right? I’m not necessarily that’s not self-promotion, but or you got it, you’ve got to do something because I don’t think you can grow in the business without mentorship. It’s it is, there’s, there’s a lot of great books, but no book you can read, other than doing the work every single day and being mentored and all the different nuances. And so it starts with the nuances. It starts with role-playing every single day. To me, anybody in the commercial, anybody in the residential real estate space needs to be role-playing every day, whether it be 5 10 15 minutes, that is absolutely key. Because as you’re role-playing, you’re getting prepped for the calls. So before I hit the calls, I’m always role-playing a little bit to get kind of my muscles moving. So I know, okay, I’m role-playing with somebody. And I’m testing out the question. I wrote out three questions that people asked me yesterday that I didn’t know the answers to. And then I wrote them out, I went to my mentor. And I said, hey, how would you answer these questions? And then how would you ask questions to get in front of them having to ask you these questions? So right and then, and so that’s kind of like the first step in my opinion. Because if you don’t, if you can’t do that step, it’s much it’s very hard to understand to listen to the windows of opportunity. Do you know what I’m saying?

Brett:

I absolutely, Jon, I want you to want to walk through all of this? We’re gonna rely on roleplay here in a second. Do you have a live link? Because we have people that are trying to get it.

Jon:

I just put it in the chat there.

Brett:

Okay. So let me do this.

Jon:

Well, I have people who are in but they’re only putting people on-screen whose pictures are here. So the screens are not covered with just empty screens?

Brett:

Yeah. There we go. Andrew.

Jon:

This is a show your face? I think we’re live link here.

Brett:

So we’re talking about the interest generated. So some folks may not even know what that is. But Jon, define interest generator, and then we’re going to do a roleplay with that interest generator to show people what that looks like. Can you define what that is Jon?

Jon:

Yeah, well, an interest generator is a line that basically creates interest. It creates a spark of something. And if somebody’s saying, I want to learn more, this is something I want to learn more. And that’s the key. It’s really important that if you want to get somebody’s attention today, it’s really, really hard. 80% of people don’t answer the phone 80% of calls don’t get returned. We are all in the business of getting people’s attention. We’re all in the business of trying to capture people’s attention. And so if we don’t do it in a way that we can create interest, that it’s going to be really really hard to get them to want to engage in a discussion with us. So an interest generator for example, especially right now in the commercial space. Could be Mr. Mrs. Client with everything that’s going on in the market today, many clients I’m talking to because of the tax changes that are happening, specifically potential 1031 thing’s about to change and potentially changing. If they don’t see themselves holding on to a piece of property over the next one to three years. They’re thinking about selling.

Brett:

I was just gonna say that’s exactly right. And so you need to have something that’s A gonna grab their attention B that’s going to be potentially actionable is the other part about it right can actually can they start to do something about it or start to plan to do something about it? For example, right now, Biden is proposing to eliminate or limit the 1031 exchange to a certain number, guess what? It’s a great interest generator. Hey, Jon, I saw you’ve owned this property for five years. Curious, have you thought about buying or selling anything in the last six months? and Jon might say?

Jon:

Yeah, maybe? I’ve thought about it with everything that’s been changing in the market.

Brett:

And the reason I’m asking you that is I know, you get a lot of brokers that are asking you about buying or selling but Biden is proposing to take away or limit the 1031 exchange. how might that affect your plan with your Capital Gains Tax Deferral? Should you sell?

Jon:

Are we role-playing right now? I’m not really sure. I haven’t really thought about it. And, but it is something that I probably need to think about, but I don’t have time to think about it right now. I’m just so busy.

SPECIAL SERIES CRE Brokerage Training: “Real estate is an imperishable asset, ever-increasing in value. It is the most solid security that human ingenuity has devised. It is the basis of all security and about the only indestructible security.” -Russell Sage

Brett:

Okay, and so now this point, someone might say, let me close for the meeting. But he just said he’s so busy. This is the point I might want to, I might want to bring up a little bit more pain. So, Jon, you say you’re so busy. Management? Time? What are you referring to in his frame? So busy, because maybe I can help you out?

Jon:

Yeah. I just don’t have time to think about it. My days are just swamped right now, especially with the world’s coming back.

Brett:

And you own all these apartments. And all the rent control laws and all the challenges with trying to evict people. I have a property on the street with a client. And he’s got like four tenants that haven’t paid rent and he says they could pay on, they could pay, but they’re just not paying anything. Are you having challenges with renters just kind of squatting and not paying and taking advantage of the system?

Jon:

No, not too badly.

Brett:

And so the back to the sales part. So that didn’t really go anywhere. Right. So that little thing didn’t go anywhere. So now back to the sales thing. If you were to sell Jon, to get out of this business of life, why would you sell him? Is there a reason even to sell right now?

Jon:

Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if I have the energy. I’m older and I just, don’t have the energy that can go through the next cycle.

Brett:

I don’t blame you. We just, we just close the deal for a similar client. And you know, he’s on it for 2030 years. His biggest thing was wanna spend time with the grandkids. He wants to de-stress the life he’s made as well. And he’s kind of just ready to retire. You know, would be looking at, you know, how we help craft that deal for him and where he’s at? Would that be of value to you? If I sent you the deal that we just closed?

Jon:

Yeah, I think so.

Brett:

Excellent. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna send that to you. But even better yet? Can I come by and see you. I know, that’s kind of forward. But I love the opportunity to meet you in person. Could I come by and just share the story with you because I think it’s valuable along with the Biden thing where it’s going on, because he’s facing that, too. He’s even considering, just paying the tax because it’s going to go up by another 20%. So if I came by, would you give me 10 minutes? I know you’re super busy. Would you give me 10 minutes just to walk you through what it is, what it’s not, and how you can prepare to not get trapped by Capital Gains Tax?

Jon:

Yeah, of course.

Brett:

Cool. All right. Great. What time works for you Tuesday or Thursday at 10 or 12?

Jon:

10 Works great.

Brett:

Okay, so now I’m gonna open it up for a couple of questions. Michelle Mendenhall, Mindy, Janice, I’m looking at people who have videos on if you want to ask a question. Jeff, on your video. Any questions about what we just said so far, and then we can kind of dial in on that it would be good to hear from you guys or gals.

LaDonna:

I think it would be perfect if I had that example of that deal. That would be pretty convenient to show and prove and close on something like that.

Brett:

You see how I leveraged my mentor or the deal that I just did, as the way to build credibility, but also to add value because I want to know about that deal down the street that just closed. I bring instant credibility because I know more about that deal obvious because I was in the deal than Jon knows, so you’re right, LaDonna. So that goes back to Jon’s original point, the mentor and the person who’s done it like if you’re gonna get your brain surgery or ACL surgery, right? You don’t want the doctor who’s never done it. You want to you want the doctor who has. So you’re absolutely leveraging and working with a business partner aligned. And guess what I’m gonna do when I go to that meeting with Jon, am I going by myself? No. The moment I get off the phone call, I’m saying I should probably already have my mentor schedule in front of me. I’m booking it based upon his schedule or her schedule. And now they’re going with me. Jon, tell us about bringing the mentor to the meeting.

Jon:

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s, it’s critical, you know, the last thing you want to do is be in hot water now where to grow? I think people are fine with I’ve just got to just get a little bit of feedback here. I think people are fine with wanting with, with people who are new in any business. You’re gonna you don’t want yourself in a situation. You get to, you get to the meeting, and you don’t know the questions to ask you don’t know how to answer certain questions. And a mentor can accelerate a meeting to get to a potential next step, a potential POV, a potential proposal, a potential listing a potential buy-side, there’s so many elements, because the mentor has ears that have heard something, you know, dozens hundreds or 1000s of times already, and they know where to take the conversation and in a different, more effective manner. And so what and then the mentee can kind of sit back and watch and learn because you learn by watching this business, and then take notes of the questions that they ask how they respond to things and start to almost like, get ahead of like, the client asked a question, this is how I would answer it, I’m saying it in my head. And then this is how the mentor answered it. Well, it was either fire apart or close together. And so then you want to be taking notes. So after the meeting, you and your mentor can talk and say, why did you answer it this way? What did this mean? I would have answered it this way. If I did, what would have happened. And you take that experiential, real-life stuff, and you dissect it. And you’ll learn from it.

Brett:

Any other questions right now or thoughts on the interest generator, listening for windows of opportunity, closing for the meeting, bringing on a mentor. Any questions on that, that we can help with anybody right now? If not, I’ll just keep talking, which is great, too. So I want to go to the point of understanding that it takes massive repetition. Massive repetition, getting to the plate, and swinging the bat. I’m telling you cold call like a maniac. Even though the fear and the anxiety and I’m selling to myself, even before I got on video, I started a Podcast or YouTube or sold my first commercial deal. Like I didn’t know what I was doing. Except for I had good trainers and good mentors that I knew I could have the confidence to lean on who when I bring them to the meeting, they’re going to get it but on that cold call, I am calling, by the way, is another part of it too. I want to roleplay with Jon here to demonstrate this, that you want to make sure that when you’re calling somebody, you’re saying their name, and what to me with enthusiasm and as if you know them, Jon. I don’t know if you know that. But like let’s do this right now want to kind of roleplay and talk about it. So ring ring.

Jon:

This Jon.

Brett:

Jon? This is Brett eXp Commercial Multifamily Broker, how are you today?

Jon:

Doing well, how are you?

Brett:

Hey, I’m doing well, the reason for my call is (A) we just sold a property (B) there’s any interest, with Biden changing this thing, (C) whatever it might be that you’re talking about? And I think it’s very valuable to hear about this. And I’m just curious, have you considered the implications for what might happen if the 1031 gets taken away?

Jon:

Yeah, my team is talking about it. And we’re not sure but we’re in deep talks about it really kind of looking at our portfolio.

Brett:

Yeah, so I know that you own 20 deals, and one of them is down the street. And by the way, next to just sold values that are all-time highs. And so I’m curious on your guys to decide what are some of the thoughts or some of the things that you guys are considering?

Jon:

I don’t know. We’re considering, what we want to buy and what we want to sell over the next 12 to 18 months.

Brett:

Okay, anything in particular that you’re thinking about buying or selling?

Jon:

Maybe a property and moving into some single tenant net lease?

Brett:

Okay, maybe a property moving to single tenant net lease. The ability to sell and defer might be gone with Biden, as you probably know. So when you say that, are you planning on selling and paying the tax and doing it, or what is your plan in case that goes away?

Jon:

I’m not sure.

Brett:

Okay, would you like me to come out and show you how we can eliminate the need for the center? Want to change or find you a way to defer tax? Not using 1031?

Jon:

Yeah, I have. Yeah. I didn’t know there was another way. So if there is, yeah, yeah, I’d love to.

Brett:

Okay, great. What time works for you, all I need is 30 minutes of your time, Thursday or Friday at 12 noon?

Jon:

Sounds perfect noon is great.

Brett:

Great. So you notice I didn’t By the way, if you guys know me, I sell the Deferred Sales Trust. I trained brokers on how to do that. I didn’t say Deferred Sales Trust, right. And I didn’t even All I said was, I’ll come to meet you and tell you about it. We’ll talk about it, we’ll discuss it right. So you don’t want to give away the juice. Also, in the very beginning, I said his name as I know him, I’m saying with confidence. I’m saying it with enthusiasm, right? And I’m trying to invite him into the conversation when I first call people like, Hello Jon. Hey, this is Brett, I’m calling you from, uh, from my company here. And I know I want to come out like I have something of value for you, Jon. And I want to invite him in with energy and enthusiasm, and confidence. And until you’re seeing that, and hearing that it’s hard to pick up on that. But again, at Marcus and Millichap, when I was watching people do this, you start to develop your own voice in your own way of in your own rhythm of doing things. But it’s important to come knowing that you have something of value to offer. Now, if you don’t have something of value to offer, you don’t have that interest rate or you don’t have that mentor, again, it’s hard to have the confidence to make these calls. Does that make sense? Jon, any thoughts on that?

Jon:

I want to go back to and just to kind of add one thing when you talk about massive repetition, you know, this business is a numbers game and commitment to and some of the things I’m an echo some of the things you said, you know, the courage, the fear, the confidence that this that comes with massive repetition, and that massive repetition, whether it’s, 20 30, 40, whatever your number is, per day, lower the bar and hit your numbers. It’s a numbers game. It’s a numbers game. And if you have if you’re hitting your metrics every day, and you have the mentorship, and you’re role-playing and you’re practicing, it’s still going to take one to three years to really build a consistent pipeline of the business. And so it’s a lot of hard work. And so you get everything we’re talking about today is so important to be in alignment with all of it on a consistent basis.

Brett:

Yep, a 100%. And so we’re going to be back next week, and we’ll talk a little bit about underwriting. We’ll talk a little bit about the actual meeting that you’re going to go on. And so, but this is recorded, you can share this with folks. Any last questions? We got 60 seconds for one question if anyone has a question. That’s okay. If you don’t know, Jon and I are scared of it. If you’re open, Stephen, we wish we could have seen you, Andrew, Gail, but LaDonna, Mindy, Michelle, Janice, and I’m not sure if anyone else. But we appreciate the 3 rules of interest generators. News to clients relevant to client leads to conversion about the property from M&M sales training notes. So Janice, thank you for sharing that. I’m not sure if there’s a question there. But yes. That’s all so I think we’re off. We’re good.

Jon:

All right. Thanks, everybody.

Brett:

Bye. Have a good day.