Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn Capital

Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn Capital

Reed Goossens is a real estate entrepreneur and Managing Partner of Wildhorn Capital. As a native Australian, Reed moved to the U.S. to pursue his investing career in early 2012.

He started his real estate investing journey back in 2009 when he read “Rich Dad Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki. This book opened his eyes to a world of entrepreneurship that he never knew existed. Since then, Reed has been involved with large-scale commercial construction and real estate development projects. His expertise includes project management, property development, and key stakeholder management.

 

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Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn Capital

 

Brett:

It’s a special episode here with Reed Goossens of Wild Horn Capital and Capital Gains Tax which is aligning strategically to be able to offer our deferred sales trust clients, passive multifamily value add deals, and especially in a great place like Texas is where Reed specializes in some other areas as well. So please welcome the show Reed Goossens. Hey Reed, how you doing? 

Reed:

Good, I might be back on the show or the new show I should say. So great look love the new look.

Brett:

Thank you. I appreciate that. And for our listeners who want to get to know you for the first time, would you give us a little bit about your story and your current focus? 

Reed:

Clearly, I’m not from this country moved out here in 2012, to chase a girl and to sort of chase a dream to sort of live as an ex-pat in New York City. And that was really it. And fast forward. A couple of years, I started realizing the benefits of investing here in the United States, compared to where I’m from in Australia. The barriers to entry into secondary tertiary markets, which we’ll talk about here in a little bit, were a lot more attractive than where I came from in Australia, which think of like the LA San Francisco, New York market, high appreciation, low, low, low cash flow, and just the plentiful opportunities to buy multifamily, which also doesn’t exist in Australia. So having this lens of being an international person coming to the United States and realize of opportunities that exist here, I started my business with my business partner, Andrew Campbell at Walton Capital. And we have grown that us five, six years, and we have about 2500 units in the portfolio right now, about $350 million assets under management. And we’ve all grown it through real estate syndication, which I’m sure we’re going to talk about here as well. And my sort of the whole deck is if I can come I travel halfway across the world and make it happen, I had limited funds when I moved to I had no network, then the average American can do the same thing as well. It’s just you know, it’s truly the land of opportunity. And you just got to realize what’s in your backyard and go take it with two hands and go for a run.

Brett:

I absolutely love it. And I want to dive into that here in a minute. More on the strategy. Before we go there, though, I want to take our listeners on a little bit of a journey with you, right, as a part of that transition in that perseverance, right that it’s kind of I think of like the wild wild west back when those who kind of forge this new path for America, right? They started out basically on the east and they move all the way to California. I’m in California, right? And you’re coming from Australia and you’re forging this new journey into this new country to build this huge real estate empire really what you built with your, with your partner, and helping so many people along the way. So what was it that that really was the heart of Reed making that journey to America?

Reed:

Two things it was I backpacked through America back in 2009. So I sort of had already fallen in love with the big apple, I knew that at some point, I wanted to live there as an expert, you know, and again, my background is in Structural Engineering. So I really just thought, you know, being the big city, there’s obviously a lot of jobs that I could go get. Secondly was also my girlfriend, who, who’s now my wife, was also American, and we moved. I moved out here to be with her but also to live in the Big Apple and that was really it. It was just an itch. Something that I, you know, always feel that regret, right? I’d hate to wake up when I’m 70 years of age and go Geez, I wish I’d moved to New York City back in 2012. So that was really all it was and prior to moving to the United States. I had already been bitten by the bug. I’d sort of reading the book Rich Dad Poor Dad and that was that opened my eyes to the world of being an investor and the word entrepreneur because I didn’t even know what the word entrepreneur meant. But it was more challenging myself to go out and create a new life for me in and through creating new life you create a new story, and that was really all it was and then from there, it’s just following the cookie crumbs down the path. Obviously been a lot of ups and downs along the way but pushing those boundaries and just saying, look, I want to go challenge myself to move halfway across the world, see if it works. The worst-case scenario is I move back to Australia and get another engineering job. And here we are nearly 10 years later, and that didn’t happen. Thank God.

Brett:

Yeah, excellent. And so by the way, you can learn more about Reed Goossens at wildhorncap.com. And so then you made a switch into investment real estate into syndication and mostly multifamily value add. And you’re in the great state of Texas right now. And in fact, Austin kind of really in the micro-location because Texas is a big state. And we’re seeing just this flood of an influx of capital businesses and people moving to places like Austin. In fact, I think in the last 150 days, we’ve seen Tesla announced, we’ve seen HP, I think Intel all relocating, you know, a big portion or if not all of their, you know, their headquarters to Austin in particular, right? Not just you know, you know, Houston or Dallas, but Austin, Texas. So would you just focus like a laser right now on your niche focus in the Austin market, as well as what kind of separates you and your team as far as a commercial real estate syndicator given your experience now.

Reed:

So if you take a step back, I think you got to look at whether the story of Austin and how it’s evolved over the last 30, 40, 50 years. And that has been that it has really been prior to the early 2000s it was probably a really boom-bust type of town like a very typical Texas town. And it was through those lessons that they learned, coupled with the fact that alternate, everyone knows Austin’s more liberal-leaning than the surrounding red that it lives in. And it was true that keep weird, keep Austin weird mentality, combined with true investments into attracting businesses into a city with good infrastructure, with the good tax benefits for the businesses, but having that liberal mindset for the young employees that they can handle, or that Bahamian mindset that they can handle to live in that city, and thus turning it from a boom and bust city into more of a stable City, where it’s now really on the map. It’s truly transformed into a global city. You know, it’s got flights directly to and from Europe every single week. It is in central time. So you get both East Coast and West Coast plus South and Central America from a timezone point of view. And it’s really has established itself as the second Silicon Valley, or Silicon Prairie. And that has helped drive a lot of jobs. So back to, you know, the announcements of Tesla, you know, Oracle, what some of the other big campuses that Google has moved to Facebook and moving there, it’s all through that they’ve got the like, the tax benefits for having a business in Texas, but it also for their employees, they can have that, you know, lifestyle, as if they experienced in typically liberal cities like San Francisco and New York, where has been a lot of techs. So that transition of a city like that over the last 20, 30 years has really made it be a great place to invest. Because you are now having a lot of supply and demand issues, right. You have a lot of people who want to move their demand. But the supply is really constrained because the city is also growing so quickly, but it’s growing at a pace that they need to also be mindful of how they grow. They don’t want to look at the lessons of Houston or Dallas where it’s just, you know, open slather and anyone can just build whatever they want. They want to be mindful of how they build their town and how they build their city and how they build their infrastructure. So there is a barrier to entry for new products. So coupled with the demand coupled with the supply constraint, buying existing block value add multifamily, in a city that is growing very rapidly and has doubled its population over the last 50 years. Every 10 years of last 50 years have doubled its population it’s continuing to double that and projected to double that in the next 10 to 15 to 20 years coupled with a city that wants to invest in itself in terms of infrastructure and attracting new businesses. It makes it all the better for investing in for frappe one of the things is and that is really riding the wave of Boston has changed over 20 years so that is our thesis of we can buy existing value add multifamily in a supply-constrained market like Austin Texas, you will do just fine over the long term.

Brett:

Beautiful we’re very well said someone should dig into that and as also a part of the show we’re talking about investing tax-deferred so I want to kind of shift to that part of the topic and then dive in on some of the multifamily deals that you’re seeing right now and and and what that might look like if you’re a deferred sales trust a client of capital gains tax solution so one of the biggest challenges and we’ve covered this in previous episodes. This is his third time on the show, the first time on the Expert CRE Secrets Podcast. But one of the biggest challenges for individuals who are selling a highly appreciated asset who want to get into value add multifamily with syndicators that are in different places, right, is the fact that they have this capital gains tax in between. And so most clients before they find us, they’re struggling with selling and wanting to be in with someone like a reduces in a place like Austin, Texas and value add multifamily on a larger scale, but they can’t, you know, necessarily 1031 into it’s complicated. It’s, in fact, 95% of the syndicators we work with just say, No, we don’t do it. Unless it’s a huge deal, like, you know, three to $5 million deal, then we might be able to carve it out. But most of them would say, no, this would the deferred sales trust comes in, it’s a nice solution where you can sell, and now you can move the funds up to 80% can go into like a value add a multifamily deal of your own or with a partner. So it gives you a lot of flexibility there. And what are one of our goals is to find trusted value add with a long track record, folks like yourself read that we can find deals because right now the biggest challenge that I’m seeing is just finding the deals right? And covering them, right? There’s a lot of competition, there’s a lot of capital. And so being connected with folks who already have a long track record in those cities, like where a lot of people want to be like Austin is super valuable. So will you just speak to the first challenge of the capital gains tax? And then second, what you’re seeing as far as opportunities to buy?

Reed:

Yes, so first I’ll answer the first question. And we’ve historically said the same thing, no, we can’t take on 1031 exchange money, it’s got to just be extra direct equity, because of you know, the structure, the structuring involved from our side of it makes it a lot more complicated. Now we’ve done 1031 exchange with one big investor, but that’s one person. Typically our business has been built on 50, 60, 100 investors pulling their money together and taking down a larger asset. So when you have one of those 50 investors come to you and say, hey, I’ve got $2 million, you go and change the structure for the other 49 investors just doesn’t make sense, right. And so that’s it historically has been changed. But obviously services like yourself, and now we’re being educated about services like yourself, we can then expand the pot to be so many more people who don’t want to get caught with the taxes and want to still be able to invest in value add multifamily in a central Texas location. So having a sort of cake and eating it as well. In terms of the benefits of what we’re finding today, yeah, you hit the nail on the head. And I think across the country, this has been accelerated through COVID is the flight up from coastal cities into the inner regions, and I’m talking North Carolina’s I’m talking, you know, Phoenix, Arizona, as you know, I’m talking Denver, Colorado’s all that type of stuff, including Texas, Florida, as well, a lot of people going to where it’s more affordable. Now, that’s good in the short term, but over the long term, it may change. I know, for example, Austin does is not as affordable as it once was. But it’s still more affordable than, say, New York or San Francisco. So we are very focused on trying to be, you know, an inch wide and a mile deep in our select locations or select markets, because we want to be the experts in those markets, right. And we have those relationships, we have the existing relationships because we’ve been proven track record in those markets. So thus, someone coming from the coast who wants to buy because they think an artist wants, you know, human needs, I want to just tell my friends and family that I’m invested in Austin, they’re not gonna be able to compete with someone like our group, because we’ve done multiple deals in the same locations with the multiple, with the same brokers who really run all the deal flow in and out of Central Texas. So right now, it’s about finding the right deal at the right price. But it’s also being beaten up by a lot of coastal players coming in not seeing the growth and thinking I need to be a part of that as it grows for the next 10 to 15 years.

Brett:

So it’s a fine line, right? And that’s the key, right? Having someone who’s not going to be overpaying and who’s going to be buying on the fundamentals, who has a long track record has the scale to be able to do it. Then when you find that deal, be able to be a part of that. And that’s why I’m excited to be connected and to align with Wild Horn Capital. And so, shifting from that now, your take on just current market conditions. Besides low inventory, hard to find deals. It seems like as much as I can tell this COVID thing is relatively speaking on the multifamily front, you know, my clients and partners maintain high occupancies, for the most part, you know, collections maybe here and there challenge but kind of more a little blips definitely not what we thought it could be, you know, straight it could be any sense on just where we’re at with the fundamentals of multifamily right now.

Reed:

I think in general the fundamentals are very strong. When you compare it to any other commercial asset class, you think of retail, you think of hospitality, you think of hotels actually getting hosed throughout COVID. Now, I do think that we’ll have a big bounce-back once we sort of getting back to travel, get back to you know, us humans, we want to interact with one another. So going to the Retail Strip Center, going out to dinner, going to the movies, going to theaters, going to sporting events, that will come back. But it will come back into sort of the tail end once we get the public health under control, I can say, a couple of the assets we have in close downtown urban cores of Austin, have struggled more than our suburban stuff. Because people are saying, Well, I can work from home, why not live 20 minutes out of town, I can pay 500 bucks less. And I don’t need to go into the office. And so we’ve seen the concessionary market in what we call, what I call the CBD, the Central Business District in and around Austin. This is not just Austin, this is New York, San Francisco, Denver. All these areas where they have a high concentration of office space being we have to offer a lot of concessions. Now. I think it’s short-term pain for long-term gain because I think people will come back to those hubs eventually. But right now, the headline news is multifamily has fared very, very well, compared to other asset classes. I think there will be specific areas or specific demographics that may have struggled more than others. But in general, when you compare it to the other asset classes, it’s coming through with flying colors. And that in itself has propelled a lot of the investor interest in real estate, particularly commercial multifamily. I only think that, historically, real estate has been seen as an alternative asset from the big players on Wall Street. Now they’re saying that no hang on this is a lot of value-added creation can be created through owning these types of assets does, they’re coming into the game in the last sort of 10 to 15 years, which is also compressing, compressing cap rates so that a lot of things have been said there. But overall, I think multifamily is going to be just fine. We are in a very compressed concession, compressed cap rate environment, which is driving up prices. I do think there might be some sort of swing back the other way. I don’t think we’re going to go all the way back to a 4, 5, 6 percent scenario. But I do think there’ll be some sort of softening as interest rates may start to expand. But then there are other people on the other side of the fence that think that interest rates are going to stay the way they are. And low-interest rates mean low cap rates, I don’t have a crystal ball, but right now it’s in we’re doing pretty good. And as sort of Warren Buffett says when you think you’re doing well, in a market, maybe you should start to take stock of what is truly going on outside of it because it’s the things that were Sideswipe you that can really walk you out as an industry. And so we’re constantly as an operator looking for those things and trying to understand the fundamentals of what’s going on in our markets in and around multifamily in general. But overall fundamentally multifamily is doing just fine. 

Brett:

Perfect.  Thanks, Reed. Yeah, as a black swan event like the COVID-19, you want to be always kind of trying to be in front of those things. That being said, I want real practical right now. So to this and you’re interested in investing with Reed, you can go to wildhorndcap.com. Now, it’ll be an accredited investor, right? And if that’s correct, make sure you guys go check that out what an accredited investor is, but for deferred sales trust clients who are listening to this, it’s simply finding out when a deal comes out, and what’s going to happen would be Reed will send me a deal, I’d share it or you’d be on Reed’s list and you’d say deferred sales trust funds, we reallocate and that’s as simple as it gets. And the neat part about the deferred sales trust and how we can invest, is we want to find a rate of returns typically around 8%. net of all recurring fees over a 10 year period of time. And we want to find investments to achieve that, given the level of risk tolerance for each individual client. And so that’s where we love some liquidity, you know, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, we love some passive investments, right? Especially in locations perhaps that you’re not located in like California, for example, I have a lot of clients Reed who go, look, I’m plenty capable of doing this, but I just can’t find making deals that make sense. And I’m saying yeah, cash on cash. In fact, yesterday, I was speaking with a potential client, who’s selling about a $2.4 million apartment complex, completely free and clear, or 30,000 of debt. They bought it for about 1.2, about double the price in there, but their rents haven’t necessarily achieved that level of 2.4. So their return on equity was about, you know, four and a half 5%. And I’m saying no, you know, it’s not just the cash on cash that you’re receiving, what’s your return on equity, and if we can sell that, you know, take all of that equity, move into the deferred sales trust tax-deferred, and put it into value add multifamily in other locations, guess what, and you don’t have to deal with the rent control. You don’t have to deal with the toilets, trash, and the liability, you can kind of retire. That’s a great combination, maybe even double, you know, in this scenario, I think their cash was about 120,000 per year. And we’re looking at around 190,000 per year,

Reed:

That’s correct.

 

Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn Capital

Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred: The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital… the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth in the economy. – John F. Kennedy

 

Brett:

Increase their cash flow. And so they’re like, well, you’re right, and I go well, that’s something that you can do now. And so practically you sell, defer the tax, and then the next day, you can invest into a deal. And from Reed’s perspective to kind of close the circle. It’s just trust investing. It’s like an LLC or an entity. It’s not using the 1031 which is like that. A blockbuster, which is very challenging, it’s a whole another set of rules. It’s really seamless here. So all that being said, that’s the how there anything else to add on the how and you’re excited to read or questions that investors should be asking about how to do this if they want to invest right now?

Reed:

No, I think you did hit the nail on the head, but to also what you mentioned before about that specific deal, it’s looking for value add opportunities in knowing your market. Yes, you can get a T-12. And look at the current revenue, right, and that’s going to back into a net operating income that’s going to back into a cap, right, and that’s where you’re going to yield on your money. But if you don’t know the market truly well enough to know that I could get pushed those rents, because they’ve been under market value for 10, 15 years $100, $200, $300. Well, that’s only gonna increase your NOI. And so looking at implies cap rate going in, may not necessarily give you the right picture if you don’t truly understand the market. And that’s a coastal play as well, coastal investors may not have the nuance of understanding what a deal in Central Texas might be or a deal in Denver or a deal in Florida might be able to push it to increase that stabilized cap rate. And thus being more yield on your money. So keep that in mind when you’re looking at these deals that there’s more to more to the picture than meets the eye. And it is just by looking at the T-12. Because you need to understand the totality of what’s going on in the market. And with the deal itself. And whether those rents stack up against where the other competitors are in the market.

Brett:

I see deals where it says oh, they sold at a four cap and you go back look at it, there were $300 below rents right market. So they’re quickly going to be able to move up. Now I say quickly with quotations here because, in California, we have rent control, right? Part of that now is Statewide Rent Control. And essentially, in Sacramento, you’re looking at about only an 8%, you know, year over year that you can actually do now. Sacramento before the rent control was the actual two years in a row with a number one market and in the US for year over year rent growth. It had been so suppressed for so many years. And so we saw some fortunes really made in this period of time. Now it’s still I think it’s in the teens in the top 15 or so market for rent growth. But on top of that, now you’re capped right at 8%. With statewide rent control. So there’s a number of nuances here that you want to understand that if you come in, if it’s a new tenant moves out, yes, you can put a new tenant in and we can probably increase the rents by a couple 100 bucks, given a value add but if it’s an existing tenant base, and they’re not moving out, right, you can only do so much. So all of those things are part of why you want to try to build a dream team of expert commercial real estate syndicators, operators, brokers, and tax deferral as well we’ll help you with the deferred sales trust. That being said if you wanna learn about more of the deferred sales trust, go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com, and with that, are you ready for lightning round Reed?

Reed:

Let’s do it.

Brett:

Alright, so knowing what you know now, Reed. If you could go back to your, let’s call it, how old are you now, Reed?

Reed:

34 years old.

Brett:

Let’s go back to your 31-year-old self just a few years ago, what’s the one thing that you might do a little differently?

Reed:

I think the number one thing I probably did back when I was doing deals then was I fixed interest rates and that fixing with Freddie and Fannie has caused me to have really big prepays it’s a step-down prepay. But I could have sold some of those deals within the five-year timeframe hold that we projected sooner, but I couldn’t have me now to get out of those deals because of the prepaid. So just knowing where interest rates were going to in that back then interest rates ever thought interest rates were going to the moon and we kept it and by buying that cat also then hamstrung our exit options in early earlier than now defined exit date. 

Brett:

So it’s what’s called yield maintenance right or a prepayment penalty. It is basically said, as interest rates go lower, basically, you’re to get out the prepay goes higher and bigger, right. So so big and it’s the hedge for the lender against you know, making sure they’re locking on their end what Reed’s gonna be paying them back at but if they go lower, that means Reed’s payout goes bigger. I mean, this essentially locks you in and you just don’t sell because he’s like it doesn’t make sense. I’m just gonna give out somebody capital, you can let the time wear out And now’s the time wears out those yield maintenance expire. Now you can do so Reed saying is he wouldn’t lock them. Is that a fair summary?

Reed:

That’s a fair summary. And again, some people will say why’d you do that was his way we were in the market. You know, you’re reacting to what you can see and no one has a crystal ball. 

Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn Capital

Brett:

Great. Second question. Number one book you’re reading or recommending right now.

Reed:

I’m reading Stillness is the Key by Ryan Holiday. Really good book. Ryan’s actually an investor in one of our deals, local texting guy, and he’s got a bunch of ego is the enemy. He’s got another one all on the Wall Street, top Wall Street Journal bestsellers. 

 

 

Brett:

Excellent. What are you curious about right now?

Reed:

I’m curious about creating ecosystems within the business. So not just by multifamily, but how can I go and really control as much of the pieces of the puzzle to really drive that value, and I’m talking about construction management. I’m talking about controlling the contracts. I’m talking about property management. Everything that feeds into multifamily and how do I make it more efficient because when more efficiency comes more profit for not only myself but also for my investors and for the deal so really intrigued by the creating of the business ecosystem because I truly believe that what you need more than just one revenue source right in your business and with multifamily, there are so many different revenue sources, besides the rent that you can profit from as an operator. So really controlling that pace right now is really stretching scratching my curiosity.

Brett:

Excellent. Yeah. Becoming more vertically integrated versus?

Reed:

Yep, exactly. Exactly.

Brett:

Right. By the way, a plug for eXp commercial, I just recently hung my broker’s license on eXp commercial for that exact reason. Because what they do is they offer multiple income streams produces versus just selling brokerage and becoming a stock owner. I think $150 a share yesterday from really $10 about a year and a half ago. And Grant Cardone just signed on as well. And so it’s kind of big names that are jumping on. That being said, the last question is this to read after all your success and after all of the things that you’re working on? What’s the number one way that you stay focused on your goals, and stay focused on your values.

Reed:

I think it’s trying to be grounded as much as possible that comes through doing daily mindfulness techniques, daily breathing, focusing on the breath, doing exercise every day, and just really getting into a routine and not being distracted by the mobile phone by the notifications by the email but taking time in the morning to ground yourself before you go and tackle the day and you’re doing if I can focus on that each and every day, the rest will sort itself out. So that’s really what I’m doing.

Brett:

I want to thank you for being on the show and sharing a bit about your story and aligning strategically with us to be able to offer some value-added multifamily deals in the greater Texas area. So that being said if we remind our listeners where they can find you if they want to reach out to you.

Reed:

wildhorncap.com is a business website. If you want more the personal website go to reedgoossens.com there’s a bunch of books up there, podcasts, all the good stuff, you can reach out to me and if you ever coming through Los Angeles, and you want to hit me up, hit me up at info@reedgoossens.com we’ll definitely meet up for a drink or a coffee and we’ll talk some shop.

Brett:

Beautiful and for those who want to learn about the deferred sales trust you can go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com and if you want to learn more about expert CRE secrets, you can go to expertcresecrets.com. We appreciate you listening to the show and thanks to everybody. Until next time, Bye now.

 

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About Reed Goossens

Invest Cap Gains Tax-Deferred with Reed Goossens of Wildhorn CapitalReed Goossens is a real estate entrepreneur, investor, author, and public speaker.

His real estate investing journey first started back in 2009 when he read “Rich Dad Poor Dad” by Robert Kiyosaki. This book opened his eyes and changed all of his perspectives especially in the world of entrepreneurship.

His background is in civil/structural engineering and he has over 9 years of professional experience before taking the plunge full time into real estate investing and development. In his former engineering life, one of the career highlights was being involved with infrastructure development of the 2012 Summer Olympic Games in London. He also worked all over the world as an engineer including in Australia, NYC, Los Angeles, Fiji, and Europe.

He moved to the US in 2011 for the love of two things: Firstly, His wife (at the time his GF), and secondly the big apple, NYC! Within the first year of living in the US, he had purchased his first duplex for $38,000. This experience taught him a lot about the benefits of investing in cash flow in the US. Barriers to entry are a lot lower compared to his homeland, Australia.

Since this time, he has gone on to start RSN Property Group, a multifamily syndication investing firm which has been involved in the acquisition of over $60 mill worth of real estate to date. He also launched the podcast Investing in the US – An Aussie’s guide to US real estate in early 2016, wherein he interviews the cream of the crop within the real estate industry to better educate other investors who want to break into the US Market.

 

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