How to Change Minds with Crypto with Bill Ottman

Bill Ottman is the CEO and co-founder of Minds, a leading alternative social network with over 5 million users. They are developing an open-source and decentralized app that will distribute revenue and cryptocurrency to the community. Bill is deeply committed to addressing privacy concerns raised by big tech platforms.

Minds is a free and open-source social network that offers cryptocurrency rewards. They are still making waves as an alternative to the dominant social network business model of surveillance capitalism. Bill has also appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.

Episode Highlights Here:

Bill Ottman:

If you’re talking to someone trying to get them into crypto or certainly trying to get a KKK member to leave the KKK, you’re not just going to preach to them. You have to listen to them.

Brett Swarts:

What’s the number one secret on how to change minds with crypto? By the way, just FYI, for those who are listening, this is going to go in a couple of different ways based upon what Bill just talked about a minute ago, and based upon what he does, and maybe, even so, talk about that, and then blend also minds.com and how it kind of connects?

Bill Ottman:

Sure. So, in our minds, one of the pillars of our principles is free speech, free press, and really sticking to the First Amendment. In terms of content policy, obviously, we’re seeing all kinds of financial channels getting banned on YouTube and Twitter, we’re seeing all other types of cultural creators getting banned for just saying certain words, and this is just like, completely unsustainable for global discourse. I mean, we’re trying to have hard conversations about all of the hot topics that people are seeing, like the big trigger issues it is possible to have these conversations and not get like, super stressed out. We partnered with Darrell Davis, who some people may know, he’s done some amazing TED Talks and his life stories. He basically is a black man who helped over 200 members of the KKK, decide to leave. He did this just by befriending them and talking to them. So Darryl, and I wrote a paper together with a number of PhDs called the Censorship Effect that goes through decades of research and peer-reviewed studies on sort of how censorship can cause increased radicalization and polarization. So, when whatever topic you want to talk about whether you want to talk about Bitcoin, the economy politics, it doesn’t matter, the topic, but the strategy for talking to some for changing someone’s mind about any topic is actually to sort of not try to change their mind. If you’re talking to someone trying to get them into crypto or certainly trying to get a KKK member to leave the KKK, you’re not just going to preach to them. You have to listen to them, you have to make them feel like you’re not as soon as someone feels like they’re trying to be convinced you just want to walk away from the conversation. It’s just a nightmare. So there’s a psychological reaction, this backfires effect that takes place when you try to do that. So you really need to approach from this place of compassion, being very, very open-minded, listening as much as possible. Then you try to start to get them to ask you questions. Because you sort of tease them with the knowledge that you have about certain topics and it’s a very delicate process.

Brett Swarts:

Okay. I think I’m getting it I love it. So the goal should not be to change someone’s mind. The goal should be really listening to understand where the people will come from empathizing with where they’re coming from. Because everyone has a story, no matter how often it might be like with something as sensitive as race and that KKK and what a story, I’d love to hear that story of his journey to help other people to ultimately change minds, but more so change a heart. I mean, I think that it’s more than just logical evidence and the thought process there. So how does by listening and empathizing? What have you found the secret to changing people’s hearts? How does that connect you?

Bill Ottman:

I remember when I first got out of college and went back home, and was living with my parents for like, a year. This was like a decade ago, kind of when I was in the very early stages of thinking about starting minds. I would just be ruthless with my dad. Like, we would just, like argue, argue, argue, like, we were very much on like not on the same page on a number of topics. I was just pushing too hard. I was so opinionated about my various beliefs, and it just wasn’t working. So, we just struggled for like, a number of years, but then over time, I stopped pushing so hard and like, he has like, a ton of experience with technology. So he started helping with the formation of minds and, and just over time, and now we’re basically on the same page on so many issues from crypto to political stuff, like whatever. We’re just so much more in resonance and it totally just has to do with the approach my changing my approach, not pressing is hard, and him doing the same way. I think that this is just such that’s one of the most valuable lessons that I ever learned in sort of dialogue with anybody in persuasion, and pitching, whether if you’re pitching your company, it’s the same tactic, which is actually like a non-tactic. Don’t try too hard. Because that’s the whole thirsty mentality.

Brett Swarts:

Very well said. I read a book years ago called Crucial Conversations, and they talk about starting with the heart and the heart gets your own heart. That you’re doing whatever it is that you want whatever the sensitive topic is, or whatever it is that you’re interacting with so that it makes sure you’re coming from the right state of mind. You’re not making any of the certain assumptions. You’re not forcing or pressing your opinion on somebody. You want to start with your heart and you’re in the right space. Then yes, care and compassion and love. It’s an approach to that. If someone feels like they’re persuading, or pushing you so hard, that you’re right, it’s just the opposite effect. Imagine, I remember growing up and as guys, you learn to, like how to attract the opposite sex and get girls YouTube for the guys. Then there is something about this the rhythm and pace of that. Where you’re not pushing so hard, we will all have friends who push really hard, or we learned at a young age not to push so hard because it’s gonna just do the opposite. So these are all intertwined with these things. I think that’s so important. Then we’re now we’re in a society in a culture that intensifies these conversations. It seems like our time has been squeezed and then you mix that on with all of these challenges that we’re having. It’s like, the perfect storm, Bill. So just talk about how crucial these types of skills or being aware of these things are right now, given what we’re going through with so many challenging things?

Bill Ottman:

For sure. I mean we’re at peak polarization, really, right now, everything is a team sport. People are just defending their tribe at all costs, and trying to slam the other side. I mean, we consider this so important. We’ve even started a live event series. We’re holding one at the Beacon Theater in New York City on June 25. For anyone interested, you can check that out at festival.minds.com. We have Daryl. We have Cornel West. We have Coleman Hughes and Tim Poole. We have some crypto people, we’re going to be talking about an array of different topics and really just having people from the left and the right. Have human conversations. It’s like there’s definitely something to be said, for face-to-face communication compared to social media communication. I think that people who are so willing to just be nasty online are when you’re looking at someone’s eyes, it’s harder to justify that type of behavior. That’s something that we’re really focused on.

Brett Swarts:

Amazing.