“You don’t have to go down this one track that everybody else is going down. Just because they’re going down it, there are other opportunities around. And I think that influence has shown up throughout its time. And it’s served us as a way to help people hear a message that they needed to hear and connect them to other people like yourself and specialists that we commonly refer to as our clients”.
Joey Mure and Russ Morgan are the founders of Wealth Without Wall Street is an online community that seeks to re-educate business owners & families on how money truly works. Their goal is to teach people how to enhance savings, increase cash flow and create passive income all without the help of Wall Street. The secret to doing this is having your money work for you, not someone else.
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the podcast here:
Discover Why The Wealthy Pay Less In Taxes With Joey Mure & Russ Morgan
Brett:
Welcome to the Capital Gains Tax Solutions Podcast, where we believe the highest net worth individuals and those who help them struggle with clarifying their capital gains tax deferral options, not having a clear plan is the enemy. And using a proven tax referral strategy is the best way for you to grow your wealth. Hey, I’m your host, Brett Swarts, and in each episode, I’m joined by some of the best financial independence and passive income wealth advisors in the world where they share their ideas, deal stories, and inspiration. So together we can make complex tax, referral strategies simple and passive income plans achievable. Hey, so our guests are back. This is Joey and Russ with Wealth Without Wall Street. You may have heard it in the first episode. It was a shorter episode. And really what I so appreciate about Russ and Joey is they have hearts of teachers and guides, and they have an experience with an old way of doing things. And now they found a new and a better way. And they’re out to change the world by sharing their wisdom and knowledge through these wealth strategies that most of the time, just the wealthy know. And so we’re going to be chatting about why the wealthy pay less in taxes and why every entrepreneur or business owner should know these strategies. With that, please welcome Russ Morgan to the show and Joey Muré. Hey Russ and Joey. How are you doing?
Joey:
We’re good.
Russ:
I would say, Brett, as we are talking today, I will correct you in your introduction that we actually are going from the old to the new back to the old. And most of the strategies that we use are actually the strategies that have been used for hundreds of years. It’s just of the last probably 20 or 30 that people have come across these new what they would assume the traditional way, but we typically refer to it as the typical way, but it’s really old and tried and true is what we’ve gone back to. And it’s shocking that if they’re still around, there’s probably a reason and they’re working well.
Brett:
I love that. And I love to dive back into it, right? So a new opportunity for the listeners, but it’s an old tried and true strategy, which has been proven for hundreds of years. I love that. So we can dive back to that in a minute here. But Russ, would you give us a little bit about your background and your current focus and then Joey right after that, okay?
Russ:
Yeah. Well, outside of telling you everything my mom would be interested in, I’ll just tell you that I made a lot of mistakes in the financial industry from 2004 to 2008. And that learning lesson has propelled me ever since. I started hanging around people who thought outside of the box. I mean, anybody familiar with The Matrix, I’ve been taking the blue pill for a long time. And then all of a sudden I took this red pill and it exploded. It opened up and expanded my mind to things that I never thought were possible. And it has created a really neat opportunity in our personal lives, but also as we watch and champion our clients who are leaving corporate jobs and are taken on entrepreneurial ventures and are seeing their family having a lot more flexibility and success because they’re pursuing the one asset and the one investment that they can count on and that’s himself. And we’re big champions of that.
Brett:
Love that. And how about you, Joey?
Joey:
Yeah, so my background was in the mortgage business for 11 years. And if anybody has ever been in that sort of a role or any other where you’re a hundred percent commission, building wealth is kind of difficult because you never know what you’re going to make from month to month. And what I found is that I wasn’t really satisfied with the 401Ks of the world and kind of putting money away, hoping that it grows, not investing things that I knew and understood, but just kind of assuming that that was the only thing to do. And so I met Russ in 2009 and started to implement some of the very same strategies that he’s talking about, the old tried and true things that shockingly still work today. And started to see a dramatic shift in my thinking first and also in just the way that my family was able to benefit. And I said, “Man, this is something special. This is something that people need to know. And quite frankly, Russ, you’re terrible at teaching them. So I need to get out there. No, I didn’t say that. I did say I want to join you in this mission because more people need to know about it. And really, we just need to add one more person to the army. So started that in 2014 and we haven’t looked back. We’ve expanded every year because there quite frankly are a lot of people searching for alternatives and they just don’t know it exists. And that’s what Wealth Without Wall Street‘s really about, is introducing and educating people to alternatives, which as Russ mentioned, really starts with you and how you think. And so, yeah, that’s our main focus right now.
Brett:
I love that. And really, the hero in each of the clients and people we get to serve, right? And we mentioned a little bit about StoryBrand how we’re both fans of that before the interview. And I can’t help but think that it truly can empower the individual once they have this information, once they have this knowledge to live out their dreams, right? And have more time, more freedom, right, with their family, friends, whatever it might be, or to pursue a business opportunity that they’ve been wanting to do. But if they don’t have these wealth strategies, then it’s hard to do that. So we’re going to dive into that in just a minute, but I believe that we’re all given certain gifts in this life, Joey and Russ. And I’m curious, what was that one gift that you were given? Maybe you identified it when you were a kid or your parents did. What is that one gift that you were given and how does that help? How do you help people today?
Joey:
Oh, you’re going to go. Okay.
Russ:
Yeah, I’ll go first.
Joey:
Go for it.
Discover Why The Wealthy Pay Less In Taxes: “The money you make is a symbol of the value you create.” ― Idowu Koyenikan
Russ:
I don’t ever like to let Joey go in front of me. So if I have a gift, and I have few if they do exist and more flaws than gifts, but I will say that early on, I identified with the ability to influence and I think that influential nature, whether it was when I was in high school growing up, and I would go over to my friend’s house who was trying to sleep in for the day, like, “No, dude. We got to wake up. Let’s go play home run derby out on the ball field.” Or whether it was when I was in college and I was working in restaurants trying to make money to help pay for things. And I was finding other servers to help take care of my tables and to take stuff around or that when it came to us getting the financial industry and helping people see that there is a better way. You don’t have to go down this one track that everybody else is going down. Just because they’re going down it, there are other opportunities around. And I think that influence has shown up throughout its time. And it’s served us as a way to help people hear a message that they needed to hear and connect them to other people like yourself and specialists that we commonly refer our clients to so that they can get the needed services and the opportunity in the financial world that some of the elite and corporations have that they feel like, “Well, maybe I don’t.” And we’re like, “Nope, there is a way to do that.” And I think our influence has been great at helping them achieve those results.
Brett:
I love that, the ability to influence and connect, and also, I guess I would say, the courage to go out and do what not everyone else is doing. So shifting to Joey. Joey, what was that one gift or that superpower that you were given? And how has that helped influence others today?
Joey:
So I would say I am just naturally a connector. I love to connect the dots for folks whenever I see something I love or that I believe in, and somebody that has that gap or that. Always been in that connector kind of position. That’s really what we do today. But I think even deeper, I would say I’ve been given a calling and that’s more of impact. Russ and I’ve actually talked about this quite a bit. What would drive somebody to leave making the over $300,000 to start from scratch? And it was because it’s not ever been about money for me, it’s been about impact. Where can I be useful? And where can I have the biggest impact? And so being in the mortgage business was great. I loved it. I was excellent at it, but I knew that there was something more that we could be doing at Wealth Without Wall Street. And so anyway, as I just kind of look back over my life, I just follow anywhere that the Lord provides an opportunity for me to have an impact.
Brett:
Absolutely.
Joey:
That’s my calling.
Brett:
Thank you so much for sharing that. And I couldn’t applaud you more, right? Using the gifts you’ve been given to be a blessing to others and to make an impact and being a connector is a gift that can help do that. And you guys are doing that. So that’s amazing. So let’s dive into why the wealthy pay less than taxes and why every entrepreneur or business owner should know about these strategies. So let’s start with Russ. Russ, what’s the best-kept secret as to why the wealthy pay less in taxes?
Russ: 
Well, Robert Kiyosaki has a book called The Cashflow Quadrant, and I know the three of us have probably all read that book several times. There are specific benefits given to those who have either businesses or are pure investors. They get to write off different items and report their income at a level at a much lower rate than the guy who’s on the street who goes to work 40, 50 hours a week, works really hard for his money as an employee. If he really is a highly paid employee, ends up paying somewhere between 40% to 50%, then he decides to move on to become a technician and create his own business. So he becomes self-employed and then he realizes he’s paying somewhere between 40% and 60% if he’s in the highest income bracket. And what the rich and the wealthy know is that being business owners, not self-employed not employees, or being investors and making money passively are taxed in a much lower bracket. I think there are many things, but that’s one of those that I’ve seen and observed that has helped me understand why our clients should be looking for ways outside of Wall Street to grow their wealth because there are so many different ways to reduce their taxes. And ultimately it goes back to not how much money you make, but how much do you keep.
Brett:
So well said, and such a good reminder to go back for the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series and Cashflow Quadrant and remind ourselves of why we’re business owners or why we own real estate and all of the amazing tax legal loopholes that are provided to help us create and preserve more wealth so we can make a bigger difference in the world. Joey, to you, what is the best-kept secret for you of why the wealthy pay less in taxes?
Joey:
Okay. So we could go really, really big pictures, or we could get pretty granular. And Russ always gets mad at me because I go straight to numbers all the time, but I’m going to give you one thing that I think has blown my mind lately. And that’s just in the last few years, we’ve implemented these things personally with our tax attorneys that work with us. And one of those is this very simple concept called the dwelling unit rental concept. So if you are a business owner and you have an S corporation that you’re operating under, so this has something to do with your corporate structure. But having an S-corp, this goes back to what they call the Augusta rule back when Eisenhower was in office, he had all these buddies down in Augusta and they said, “You know what? We really want to rent our homes for the masters, right? But we don’t want to have to pay tax on that. What can you do?” And in his own protectionist fashion, Eisenhower created a loophole, if you will, the Augusta rule. It said that you could rent out your house for up to seven days and not have to pay tax on that for any one-year timeframe. If you went to eight days, you ended up having to pay tax on all eight, right. But then it was expanded later to 14 days. The good news is that’s still around. And so it still applies and, in fact, can be done on multiple homes, your primary residence, your secondary residence. As long as you’re not renting that property for more than 14 days, then you can claim that income personally, without tax. So the very common way that we use this is if we have a business meeting, and there are certain parameters around it, and I don’t want to make it super simplified, but you have to have a daily rental rate appraisal done on your home. So it’s not the same as a comparative analysis of the value of your home. You’re talking about actually, what would the Hilton down the street, or what would the Marriott down the street charge for the similar square footage and amenities of your home for an entire day? And so that can range anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 a day, depending on square footage. But if you did that, you could rent your home to your business for a business meeting you were planning on having at your home anyway, up to 14 times a year. And that could be significant tax savings that have always been there, right? This has been there for a long time. It’s just a matter of knowing how to utilize that tax code to your benefit.
Russ:
Brett, so Joey went very granular. And what I would say as to why that works is that the rich are willing to pay somebody who’s done all that research and has created all of that value or willing to spend a dollar to get $10 back. And that strategy has always existed, but yet it was never revealed to Joey and me until we were willing to spend a dollar. And then we started getting $10 back from hiring tax attorneys who’ve already done all of this research.
Brett:
I can’t help but think of hiring the who instead of being the how right? And so I think every good entrepreneur has to get over the illusion of control and the illusion of just saving a buck, because I’m going to just do it by my bootstraps, right.
Russ:
Yeah.
Brett:
And we all have this vision here, and this vision could be upward into the right. We’re trying to get to this place, right? And too often, we think it’s going to be just us, right? Meaning I’m going to figure it out. I can, whether it be, create the website or do my own taxes or whatever it might be. And instead, you want to hire that who, who already have the 10,000 hours, who already has a proven track record and pay them. And then for that dollar, you’re going to get $10 back and you’re going to save yourself on all that procrastination. But it does take investment. It does take releasing control, but when you can do that, it can pay dividends. So is that a fair summary, Joey and Russ?
Joey:
Yeah, I think so.
Russ:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, so bottom line, we talk about this a lot. Trading time for money is something that we’re very common kind of ingrained to do from a very young age. We have to get out of that mindset or we have to trade our time for much higher dollars, right. And part of that is hiring the people that can do the things at a much lower rate than what we know our worth to be. And that’s where tax attorneys come in. Like Russ is saying, we’re paying a dollar for $10 worth of knowledge. And you just can’t make that up.
Brett:
Well said. So well said. So the rich are willing to pay somebody a dollar to get $10 back and trading time for dollars and making sure that you’re delegating those things and outsourcing those things that someone can do much better than you and get you a better return. Makes perfect sense. So how do we leverage? Are you guys focusing on infinite banking as well? And maybe define what that is and how would someone maybe leverage infinite banking concepts to create passive income and build generational wealth.
Russ:
Yeah. Well, I’ll kind of help you get your arms of why somebody would do it, and I’ll let Joey give the details because he’s better at details than I am. But here’s a thing, and I’m going to probably make a fool of myself. I’m good at doing that, Brett. But I’ve watched women for years wear these stretchy jeans and it’s like, “Man, how are they getting in those jeans?” It seems like if I get into a pair of jeans, especially if they just got out of the wash, they’re hard as aboard. And I have to walk around for four hours like I’m in ski boots until I finally get them to loosen up to where I have some level of flexibility, right? And then I finally broke the bank and I went and bought myself a pair of, I’m going to call them designer jeans, fancy boy jeans, right? City boy is what my dad would call them, city boy jeans. And they’re stretchy. And as soon as I put them on, I was like, “Dang, now I know. Now I know what the secret is.” Women were wearing these tight jeans. And I thought, man, they were walking around in chastity belts being squeezed to death because that’s what I felt like in a pair that I get on. But now you put on these jeans that expand with you. It’s like, “Yeah, yeah. Bring on the buffet.”
Brett:
Game changer.
Russ:
So I say that just to kind of lay the foundational work for this is that when I first learned about this concept called infinite banking, I had been looking at it from the old jean mentality. I am not going to step over in the camp where people are using life insurance as a tool, as a financial warehouse for cash. I just don’t think that works. I’m going to stay over here and work in my own traditional, typical, what I’ve been taught and financial planning world. And in 2009, I finally bought myself a pair of stretchy jeans for the purpose. And I started realizing that this engine is a financial tool that’s been around 200 years, which is a dividend-paying whole life insurance contract. When designed properly, it actually gave me so much flexibility. It was like Joey sat down in front of a buffet at the Sizzler, without any repercussion of what his pants are going to feel like when he stood up.
Brett:
Joey loves that, right? I mean, he’s at Sizzler every Wednesday night at 6:00 for that discount, right?
Joey:
Whatever the night that kids eat free, though.
Russ:
Joey cannot wait for quarantine to be over so he can get back to the fountain of chocolate at the Golden Corral, or wherever.
Joey:
Yeah. I mean, the bottom line, is infinite banking has this really kind of mystical idea attached to it. This kind of conjures up this idea, infinite banking. Oh, it’s got to be something crazy. At the very bottom line, it’s just like what Russ said. Everybody’s been used to using those really stiff jeans. That’s your savings account, your checking account. They’re like, “Yeah if I could find something better than this, that’d be great.” I don’t know anybody. Brett, maybe you know somebody that they’re putting in and they have hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in his checking account and they’re excited about it. Not one, they’re always kind of ticked off about it like, “I wish there was something else that I could be doing with this money, but I don’t want to put it at risk. I don’t want to put it into the market and I don’t know exactly what I want to do with it. So I’m just going to leave it here.” And every day that goes by, they know that they have termites in their wallet. Literally, inflation is crushing them because that checking or savings account is earning nothing. But infinite banking just replaces that and it’s this alternative you’ve always been looking for. It’s dividend-paying whole life insurance designed for cash. It’s not there primarily to handle the death benefits issue. Most people think of life insurance, they think protection only. This is the opposite perspective of looking at it from a cash perspective and then saying, “Okay, now how do I utilize this policy to borrow against it or collateralize it? I use it just like I’d collateralize a home or whatever, use the cash to go in and invest in the things that create passive income and financial freedom today.” And so at the very base level, we’re replacing cash. But the bigger thing, this is the cool thing that Russ and I have developed and realized over the last several years, especially, is that it’s not about the policy. It’s about how it makes you then think. We recently had a client on the podcast. And what he told us is he said he went from a mindset of just putting money away and hoping that something works out and not engaging in the process of seeing his money do things, to now he’s got money in a policy. And he said, “All it was doing was begging him to tell him what to do with the money.” So all of a sudden he had to really educate himself at a high level on what he could do with that money and it totally changed the game. Now his mind is expanded to see things from a totally different perspective. And now he’s on track to get out of “the rat race” and have more passive income than monthly expenses as a result of taking control and expanding his mind. So did the police do that? No, it’s a product, but the product led to the process of really changing his entire outlook and subsequent financial future.
It's not just the tool or the strategy, it's the team of experts that you build around you to help you execute the business plan, to help you build your wealth. And that is certainly the approach that we take and our successful clients… Click To Tweet
Brett:
Thank you for sharing that. And my mind is exploding right now. Hope our listeners are too with the possibilities and just the curiosity of what this means. To be honest, I come from a commercial real estate background and I’m a commercial real estate investor. And like Joey, maybe like Russ, in the old days, the old jeans are insurance, stocks, bonds, mutual funds. Yeah, you guys can go wear those tight jeans that don’t really move. We want depreciation. We want cash flow. We want an opportunity to control our wealth and grow our wealth. But that being said, there are also some challenges right, with the 1031 Exchange. And I can’t help but think of the analogy there with begging you to spend your money, right. When you’re in a 1031 Exchange, guess what that taxman is doing.? They’re saying, “Hey, 30% to 50% is going to be wiped out in depreciation recapture. Not unlike we can dive into Russ’s story when his wife sold the dental practice here in a minute. But it’s begging you to spend the money. And what happens when it’s begging you or it’s forcing you, or it’s pressuring you, you end up overpaying and putting it into something that perhaps you didn’t want to be in, or that you wouldn’t have bought for its intrinsic value. So I think that’s so true. If we can change our thinking and provide a vehicle that gives us freedom and flexibility and to get to buy or invest whenever we want to and take that pressure off. I mean, that’s at the heart of, I think, everybody is liberty and freedom to do what they want with their wealth when it’s best for them based upon their needs and their lifestyle. So you guys resonate with that? Have you had any clients that are familiar with the 1031 Exchange or done anything like that?
Russ:
Yeah. I think what you just said and ties so well to what Joey was talking about. We actually had a client on our podcast not too long ago. And he was talking about selling this fairly large business and this was before he became a client with us and he had sold this business and was sitting on cash. And he was really troubled by what to do with the money. And I think that’s, one, yes, he had a huge tax bill. And two, he’s sitting on all of this cash and he’s trying to figure out what to do with it. And there lies trouble, right? When you get in this feeling of being forced to do something, that’s what you were leading to, Brett. And all of a sudden when you start making financial decisions on emotion, usually they’re not good. And so what we teach our clients is how to build a system so that when they do sell their business, the first place that cash will go is back into their contracts a lot of times. Or if there’s a death in the family, we’ve experienced that over the years where we’ve had clients, unfortunately, that have passed away much earlier than we would have expected. And the spouse gets a huge lump sum of money. Where’s that money going to go? And helping them have a place to put windfalls of cash that doesn’t force them to make a decision. And I know sometimes that’s the reason why they appreciate your trust is because they don’t have to make that decision right off the bat. And they’re not forced to maybe make a bad decision. And what we believe is that our business owners and entrepreneurs are really good at making money. Unfortunately, they’re really good at making money and not usually keeping it. And when there are strategies and experts that come around and help them keep more of it, and in the reduction of taxes, maybe reduction of opportunity costs, they don’t usually need a place to go invest. They already got that part. So when Joey was talking about an investor who has hundreds of thousands of dollars and they don’t know what to do with it, it’s not that they don’t know what to do with it. They don’t know what else to do with it, other than reinvesting it in their business. And sometimes there’s not a need in their business to reinvest it. So they’re waiting for that opportunity in their business. And so where is that capital going to be stored? And for us, we’ve looked around and we started evaluating, what are the largest corporations? What are the most wealthy individuals? What are the banking institutions doing with their safest cash? And they’re putting it in life insurance. And that is shocking. That is one of those things where, as a certified financial planner, I was shocked to learn that the two largest banks in our US, Bank of America and Wells Fargo, have $18 billion and $22 billion of cash value life insurance. And this is public information. Go to fdic.gov and look this up. And I thought, “Well, why in the world would they put money in such a stupid investment?” I’ve listened to financial entertainers and read books on why these are such bad tools. Clearly, they’ve got smart individuals working there. I may not like them. I may not like having to go to the bank if you had a bad experience, but you know that they understand how money works, because they’re the first place that all of us put our money and they’re the first place we go to when we need money. So how in the world, if they’ve got all of that expertise and intellect in those corporate offices, would they be putting money in a place that I thought was a really dumb place? And that’s where through this opportunity and flexibility that we’re going through. We realize they are tools just like anything else, just like a deferred sales trust. It’s a tool. Just like when Joey was in the mortgage industry, it’s a tool. Life insurance contracts, if used the way that we use them, could be a good tool. If you use it like 95% of the people that use them, it could be a really bad tool, at least for the accumulation and utilization of cash.
Brett:
Absolutely, and that’s so well said. And it’s not just the tool or the strategy, it’s the team of experts that you build around you to help you execute the business plan, to help you build your wealth. And that is certainly the approach that we take and our successful clients take. And so we are running out of time and this conversation is so good. I would like to bring you guys back at a future date to dive in even more because it’s been so rich. But with that being said, where could everyone find you? Russ and Morgan. I’m sorry. Russ and Joey, Russ Morgan, and Joey Mure, where could they find you guys if they want to connect with you?
Joey:
You guys can go out to wealthwithoutwallstreet.com. There, you can actually get access to our podcast. You can check out Russ’s biography and get deeper into that if you like. I’m just kidding, but you can also get access to our community. It’s a free community. Over 2000 members strong, all people who are on the path and the journey to financial freedom, they’re taking in massive amounts of different ideas to create a passive income, to reduce taxes, to implement infinite banking. We have a course specifically on IBC 101 that people want to learn more and dive deeper into this. They can do it at their own pace. And yeah, that’s the best way to get us.
Brett:
Perfect. Well, guys, I want to thank you for being on the podcast, sharing your gifts, your talents, your wisdom with our audience so they can create and preserve more wealth, keep doing what you’re doing, and keep helping more people so they can be more of a blessing to others. And I want to thank our listeners again for listening to another episode of the Capital Gains Tax Solutions Podcast. As always, we believe the highest net worth individuals and those who help them struggle with clarifying their capital gains tax deferral options, not having a clear plan is the enemy, and using a proven tax referral strategy such as the deferred sales trust is the best way for you to grow your wealth. Hey, thanks so much. Please share the rate, subscribe with somebody who also can help. We also appreciate that so much. And with that, we wish you well. Bye.
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About Joey Mure
Founder and Partner at Wealth Without Wall Street bring impact, integrity, and generosity to the company every day. He hopes to be remembered as a lover of Jesus, a devoted husband, and a faithful father. Despite dreaming, around age 10, of becoming an orthopedic surgeon, Joey was in the mortgage business for 11 years before moving to finance in 2014. His personal mentor, Nelson Nash — another man of integrity and impact — is someone Joey deeply admires. Joey’s strengths in building relationships, asking great questions, and influencing and empowering people with the Wealth Without Wall Street message make him invaluable to the company’s mission.
About Russ Morgan
Is known as “The Idea Guy.” He began his professional career as an investment advisor in 2004 after graduating from Auburn University — a slight foray from 10-year-old Russ’ dream of becoming a professional baseball pitcher. After obtaining his CFP in 2008, Russ started IBC the following year, and eventually went on to found Wealth Without Wall Street in 2015. His mother was an enormous inspiration for him growing up. As a single mother with two young children, she took a rigorous, accelerated track through college while working multiple jobs, all with the goal of bettering her children’s lives. When he’s not working, you can wave to Russ on a boat at the lake pulling his kids around on a tube. And on Sunday mornings, he’s probably rushing to church with his family … only 10 minutes late.
