Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujillo

Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujillo

Susan Trujillo is a senior escrow officer at Orange Coast Title in Northern California. She started her career in the late 90s. She has exclusive training in escrow specifically in Northern California. The escrow officer is the liaison between the title department or title officers to help streamline transactions. She truly enjoys her career because she gets to meet different clients, buyers and sellers, and realtors that helped her get educated. She also enjoys her profession because of the variety of transactions she gets. So with that growth, she believed that brought her to what her career is now.

 

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Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujillo

 

Brett:

I’m excited about our next guest. She has become a good friend of mine, and she’s actually an expert when it comes to all things escrow. She’s a senior escrow officer at Orange Coast title here in Northern California, Orange Coast covers a lot of all of California, but especially Northern California, Susan is the go-to, in fact, we’ve done multiple deals together. And she is going to talk to us a little bit about her experience as an escrow officer, as well as in particular the deferred sales trust and some transactions she’s helped to aid in closing as a title professional. She brings over, I think, let’s see here, over eight or nine or 10 years in the escrow world. Since 2011, she started at Fidelity National Title, and then she went to Orange Coast Title in 2000. So please welcome Susan Trujillo. Susan, how are you doing?

Susan:

I’m doing well. Thank you, Brett.

Brett:

I’m glad to have you on the show and I’m excited to introduce our audience to you and maybe even potential clients that are closing the deferred sales trust or current clients closing the deferred sales trust. With that, would you give our listeners a little more about your current, your story, and your current focus?

Susan:

I started my career, actually a little longer than what you mentioned. But we met you know, closer to that period, but I have exclusive training in escrow, specifically here in Northern California. With that, the escrow officer is the liaison between our title department or title officers so it helps streamline these transactions, whereas Southern California title and escrow are handled separately in most cases, sometimes by the same company but there are many escrow only companies and title only companies in Southern California. But with the Northern California practice here, we again streamline and we get direct training for all escrow and the legal practices that we handle here, but doesn’t exclude us from handling the Southern California properties. 

Brett:

Excellent before we dive in too much to the other technical part on the escrow different things, would you help our listeners get a little bit to get to know you a little bit more, maybe a little bit about your background, your story, and how you came to become a title professional?

Susan:

I started my career in the late 90s. And with that, you know, escrow officers groomed into this business with the specific training, the resale transactions, gather mainly the, you know, practice that we handle, I, you know, truly enjoy my career because of the difference of the clients, you know, we get a pool of people, geographically, I enjoy the one on one with the buyers and sellers, you know, our realtors help educate us as well and then we, you know, reciprocate that, but, you know, I truly, truly do enjoy it just with the, you know, variety that we get. each transaction is, you know, totally different, you know, they’re not cookie cutter. So with that the growth, you know, brought me to my career now. I grew up in the Bay Area. You know, beautiful part of California, I have two great sons. I enjoy golfing, you know, outdoor activities. And now, you know, being here, a neighbor of Brett Swarts in Roseville, you know, is another great thing that, you know, connects us.

Brett:

Totally a small world. So isn’t doing a deferred sales trust presentation at Orange Coast title, I think that was about three years ago, and came to the office at a presentation and then started to show it to do transactions over the years is slowly growing, and it seems to be growing every year. But that’s actually where I was originally from to mission, San Jose Fremont area kind of grew up with my dad’s Custom Homes room additions all throughout the Bay Area. That’s where we were at. But then I moved, relocated up to Sacramento with my mom, and have been here kind of ever since. And so it’s kind of cool to find out that Susan just moved to Roseville and I say, oh, where do you live, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, you’re like a mile from me. So we’re just around the corner from each other. So very small world. So, Susan, I want to take a step back and help our listeners to get to know you even a little bit better. You know, I believe we’ve all been given certain gifts in this life. And I believe these gifts, we will call them strength or superpowers. You know, I believe they’re their God-given gifts. But I believe these gifts will be given to us to be of help or blessing to others. So I’m curious, I want you to go back maybe to either the high school days, or the college days, or even when you’re the days have passed, what do you feel maybe was a gift that you were given and how do those gifts help how you help people today?

Susan:

I truly believe my gift is helping people and educating them. My mom was an elementary school teacher, and I kind of feel I have that gift of teaching others, you know, I like to explain things and helping them gain the knowledge of whatever it is that, you know, we enjoy doing. So, you know, if my biggest joy is cooking, and baking, so I just remember, you know, learning that having my mom teach me and then now with, you know, having sons and a grandson that can help cook, I really love that part of you know, just teaching others. And I think that really drew me for this career. I’ve done multiple trainings throughout the year with one of our business partners, Ontario Real Estate joined their educational center. And, you know, I just love that part, you know, this industry is so fast-paced that sometimes, you know, escrow officer gets wrapped up with just the Go go go and really doesn’t slow down to fully explain things. Sometimes under the gun, it’s just kind of the being told, and, you know, signed, signed, signed. But, you know, I really like to slow down the process and help with the education behind the transaction itself, just so that at the end of the day, you know, the information sticks with the client. And, you know, they gain it just as much as I do.

Brett:

Absolutely. And I can absolutely attest to that as well. I would say if I had to give like a sentence that can describe your level of service and help it’s really grace under fire, right. So there is a lot going on in escrows, especially when there’s stuff like deferred sales trust, and there’s, there are multiple people, there are different entities, and there’s different brokers and lenders and relationships. But I would say, Susan, you minimize grace under fire. And so I appreciate you sharing that you mentioned your mom is an elementary school teacher, I imagine she had a lot, she had to be a lot of grace under fire to write with kids that age. So that being said, I like to dive into the escrow part of things and becoming an escrow officer, and in particular, the deferred sales trust. We’ll touch on that here coming up. But just for background, I’m curious, Susan, how many deals do you say transactions have you helped close over the years? 

Susan:

Overall, at least 1000s, with my career, but the deferred sale trust with those being really newer to the, you know, real estate world, I would say about 20 at this point. And you know, I’m seeing they’re gaining traction, so I’m sure there’s going to be many more.

Brett:

And let’s talk about that for a second. So when you first heard about this, I think it was before the showtime about three or four years ago, you first started doing some of these transactions. And I think 80% of them are private take primary homes high-end primary home 20% investment properties you were saying. I’m curious what was when you first learned it and as an escrow officer, perhaps you see a lot of these different things or different ideas or I don’t know, maybe you don’t but walk us through when you first learned about it and what you thought and then versus what you know about it now.

Susan:

Right. So, when I learned about it, it was a transaction that actually took over from an escrow officer who had just resigned from our company. And I wasn’t too sure, you know, how it was structured. Traditionally, the 1031 exchanges were, you know, established. And, you know, those specific instructions assist with the deferred, you know, transfers of property taxes. And after, you know, reading the instructions for just deferred sale trust, it’s structured very similarly to a 1031 exchange. But what I learned is that you can defer the taxes for a primary residence where a 1031 exchange is solely for investment properties. So that was the first that I learned of primary residence being included in these types of transactions.

Brett:

And to that point right there. I mean, that’s so big to this to really grasp because the same thing happened for me as well. And growing up in the Bay Area, in Silicon Valley area, and all of the highly appreciated homes, friends, and family who’ve been there for, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, but really low prices are through the roof. I’m thinking of a deal, actually in Cupertino. And it was for a client who had sold next to the Apple headquarters, and her houses were 3.1 million if your kids are gone. And she had bought it somewhere around 800, or I think about five or $600,000, about 20 or so years before that. And so above and beyond her 121 exclusion, right? If you live there to the last five years, to 50, if you’re single, you get that exemption, and 500, if you’re married, well above that sheet, she was owing somewhere around 400 or $500,000 in liability. So she used the deferred sales trust a deferral of that. And she had done multiple 1031 exchanges has owned investment properties for years. But just how big of a deal do you think that is? for folks who just don’t know? I mean, how can you put that in context for the amount of deals that you’re doing, especially high-end primary homes in the Bay Area? 

Susan:

Yeah, downsizing in the bay area, you know, the capital gains taxes can be enormous, you know, with the exclusion, you know, 500,000 every two years. So, yeah, when I learned that, you know, what I experienced is the sellers selling these high valued homes, you know, we’re having to really think through how you know, and losing out on funds that they could allocate for, you know, future withdraws, versus just paying the government for, you know, for the taxes on the sale. So yeah, my career was built in Silicon Valley, Cupertino right next to the Apple headquarters. And so we saw many sellers in this situation. And it’s the savviest sellers that are looking into this deferred sell trust, you know, what I’m learning and after, you know, meeting them, and having the discussion upfront of, you know, having their primary residence sold in handled through a deferred sale trust, you know, it’s, it’s coming to me after they’ve been well educated and versed in how it’s handled. And so that’s the main thing every so often now with the referrals that you and I work on, will bring up this type of transaction. And it’s almost unbelievable to the seller, they don’t really understand it. But after they gained the education, you know, they will most definitely make that decision. We’ve seen a lot of sellers go that route,

Brett:

It’s only increasing more and more as more transactions close. And more people hear and understand that it’s really just an installment sale, right, we’re using a third party, unrelated trustee, that’s our role here, capital gains tax solutions. And we’re actually going to assign the interest of the asset that’s been sold to this to this newly formed trust. And that new trust is going to turn around and sell it to the buyer and since it bought and sold for the same price, it has no gain. And since the seller is receiving what’s called an installment or a promissory note, it’s like an installment sale there and receives slowly payments back from the trust. That being said, Susan, it’s still even hard and you do this all the time. But for the new listener who’s listening, right? What’s maybe the most important thing to understand to make it simple like, how would you describe it? What I just said the same way, what would you add or subtract to that?

Susan:

Yeah, so the transaction handled by the title company, you know, we issue a title policy to the buyer. And that’s where we come in and, and work closely with the deferred sale trust attorneys to make sure that the assignment also includes the direct deeding of the property. So that means the actual seller, the current owner of the property is the one that signs the grant deed to the buyer. So that’s, that’s what we refer to as direct deeding. The assignment is for the purchase agreement so that the seller can assign their proceeds to the deferred sell trust. So it’s almost two parts to the transaction, where orange post title has become known and myself to handle these transactions. Because of the direct deeding, there are quite a few of our competitors who shy away from this transaction only because, you know, they’re there. They’re not really educating themselves on how it’s handled. And they’re much bigger than they have these huge corporate companies that will see it as more of a risk because they just don’t do them very often. So they’ll just shy away from the transactional together. But with the direct deeding is where we’re allowed to ensure the property transfers so that it’s all within the California regulations. 

Brett:

So these transactions are very technical and we need the guardrails. I mean to do certain things in certain orders. If we mess that up. It’s taxable it but by the way, it’s not unlike a 1031 exchange and a lot of ways like we were saying earlier that we have to do things in a certain order for those as well. And so what would you say the biggest difference? As far as once you’ve done now, I think over 20 of these at least transactions right helped close? What would you say the biggest difference between the deferred sales trust as far as either paperwork or technicalities versus the 1031 exchange? And the reason I’m asking is, it seems like because there’s everyone knows the 1031 exchange, and it’s, you know, it’s just there are 5000 exchange companies educating people all the time, whereas the deferred sales trust is literally like one installment sale attorney that does it a group? And then there’s a few trustees that that’s me. And then there are some others, but obviously, it’s proprietary to protect it. But once you’ve actually done the transaction, is there really any more complex than a 1031, Susan?

Susan:

No, not really, you know, the 593 will confirm that the sale proceeds were deferred. So that’s the protection for the seller, for tax purposes after closing of escrow. And what I’ve learned is some sellers are able to receive funds at close and defer X amount of dollars to the deferred sale trust, the DST. So with that, I’ve also learned that sellers can use their own investment brokers to you know, create the account that they would like their funds to be held in after closing of escrow and or with that promissory note, be able to draw it in the future. And that all gets handled by the attorneys. So again, as long as I received these specific instructions, from the different sale trust attorneys for the assignment and the direct deeding. The allocation of funds is really at the sellers’ discretion.

Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujilo

Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust: “Don’t stretch yourself too much with a mortgage. Buy within your means… it’s not worth the sleepless nights.” – Sarah Beeny

Brett:

Excellent. Very well said. And yeah, and that’s where our team here at capital gains tax solutions will help you design what we have to call in an optimal timing transformational exit plan where you can sell your high-end primary home investment, real estate, or either works for stocks, bonds, or stock highly appreciated stocks, cryptocurrency, as well as artwork and collectibles, you can defer the tax using a deferred sales trust. And then once the funds are in the newly formed bank account, the financial advisor can manage the funds and can and can now and now hopefully earn interest on that. Typically we shoot for about 8% 7% or 6%, depending on the risk tolerance of the client and net of all recurring fees, and then try to pay back and so let’s say the recent deal just did a $7.9 million sale in Aptos, just south of Santa Cruz. We help that family for about two and a half million dollars of tax and it used to be their primary home turned into a rental They didn’t want to do a 1031 exchange. And so that’s exactly what they did. They park the funds there. And then the funds can be slowly paid out. And they’ll pay tax slowly along the way, which is why the IRS has seen it knows it and allows it because it actually is incentivizing people to sell and do transactions, and also pay tax slowly along the way versus not selling. So that’s IRC 453. If anyone wants to learn more about that you go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com. That being said, Susan, what questions should potential deferred sales trust individuals we’re looking at this be asking that aren’t? And what would you say maybe one or two questions that they should ask for them that maybe they haven’t thought about yet?

Susan:

So one thing is, you know, the title insurance vesting, what they will need to double-check for themselves is how they hold title. And if they’re in their own trust, to be able to provide not just myself, but the deferred sales trust attorneys their full trust agreement, so that they can have that reviewed prior to making their decision. Also, you know, whether or not they, you know, have it held under an entity name. So, knowing how they hold titles ahead of time is very important. That way we can obtain the proper documentation upfront so that there are no delays, also, whether or not they own mortgage on the property, and if they’re going to decide to defer all of their funds to the deferred sell trust or request to upfront withdraw so that they can determine how much the Franchise Tax Board will withhold at the time of close. So, you know, those are the pertinent questions that come up most often, how they hold title, you know, we always issue a title report. And the rest of it’s pretty seamless. So it goes pretty smooth, but it’s the timing as well, you know, they, I’ve had some sellers, call me, they say they’re going to have it handled through a 1031 exchange, all of a sudden, they get educated that there’s a deferred sell trust, and it’s the timing we need, you know, to have the proper instructions in place, in order to close if they get an all-cash offer. And they want to close in seven days, they really need to be ready, and have all their documentation provided to the escrow officers so that we can be ready to close their transaction.

Brett:

Yeah, let’s walk through that for a second really important point here. And so we always say it’s never too early to get your deferred sales trust, ready and set to go. In fact, we have what’s called a conditional, or a conditional engagement agreement, where, where if for some reason the deal doesn’t close, there’s some reason you don’t want to use the deferred sales trust. You don’t know, the deferred sales trust tax attorneys, no capital gains, tax solutions, any money. And but what we found in the past is, if we hadn’t, we don’t take that pressure off, then what folks would do naturally is they’ll just wait to the last minute and they wait to the last minute, it can be too late, legally speaking, because the entity hasn’t been formed before all contingencies have been removed. And so we need to prepare and pre-prepare for that. And so especially in the Bay Area, we actually just recently in Palo Alto, Susan was an $8.3 million, a primary home sale. And that particular deal, same thing, it was all cash, I think was a 14-day close. And sometimes they’re 10 days, and those are seven days, and a lot more or removing contingencies very quickly. And so if you’re waiting to try to set it up between now and you know, by the time it was an escrow, and the time the trust is formed, it can be too late. And so we want to encourage you to go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com

And if you’re going to be selling anytime in the next 30, 60, 96 months, you’re not going to be selling, let’s just form the trust today, let’s get in place. Let’s get everyone prepared. Let’s get Susan on board ready to do the escrow because that’s another thing too. You want to be working with professionals who’ve actually done these transactions. I always look like in it back to the brain surgeon or in fact and the surgery, right? I hadn’t had two ACLs replaced and some of the questions you want to ask if you’re gonna have your ACL replaces How many of you close and what’s been the outcome of these things, right? And you don’t want to go with an agent who has never done a deferred sales trust. Neither do you want to go with an escrow officer who’s never handled it. There are too many complexities and too many things to slip through for your transaction. So it’s too important. It’s so important to work with professionals who’ve done that. That’s why you want to connect with Susan and me to make sure that it’s seamless and nothing falls through the cracks. Susan, anything to add to that?

Susan:

Yeah, going back to you know, the real estate agent. That’s going to list the property, I now again, with that education that I’ve gained, I have had a few agents that have reached out to me, after learning through their seller that they want to use the 10, the deferred sell trust, and I helped educate them. So, you know, keeping the, you know, referral system going, you know, we like to, you know, provide them as much information upfront. But, but yeah, if there’s an agent out there that has the experience, of course, it makes it much smoother. All the disclosures include information related to the deferred sales trust upfront. And that way, it’s all transparent. The, but other than that, you know, the realtors after I speak to them if they’ve never handled one before, you know, it’s okay. And we’ve all helped them gain the knowledge as well, prior to but a lot of them do call me months before they decide to list the property, which is awesome, because, you know, that’s what we want, we want them to be well educated, well versed when they’re taking an offer, they can prepare the contract to include disclosures related to the deferred sales trust.

Brett:

Perfect, I can say better myself, and I’d been a commercial real estate broker, sorry, Marcus and Millichap, we learn about the 1031 exchange. And about day three, I didn’t learn about the deferred sales trust for three years later, and then it was too late because the crash had happened. But since then, it’s been over a lot about an 11-year journey of educating and being trained, and being coached. And by the way, we have an amazing coaching program for realtors or luxury realtors and or commercial real estate brokers and go-to experttaxsecrets.com to learn a lot more about our coaching program and be prepared. I like it into not knowing what the 1031 exchange if you’re a commercial broker or realtor by any means if you don’t know what the 1031 exchange, you’re missing out and your clients are potentially going to be paying huge tax for that. So the same thing, the deferred sales trust, you should know about it can save a failed 1031 exchange, by the way. And of course, it could work for a primary home what we’re talking about here today, as well, of course, there’s another investment property. So go to experttaxsecrets.com to learn more about how to how to get educated and prepared for that next transaction.  That being said, Susan, are you ready for a lightning round? 

Susan:

Yes. 

Brett:

All right. So here we go. Knowing what you know, now, if you go back to your 25-year-old self, and this is just a general question for life, or leadership or wisdom, what’s the one Golden Nugget that you would make sure to tell yourself at that age?

Susan:

To have confidence in myself, I grew up being really sheltered and shy, and, you know, actually being here today with you, Brett is, you know, something that, you know, gets me out of my comfort levels. So, I would just pretty much tell myself, you know, what, let others guide you feel comfortable with yourself, and just speak with, you know, you know, when we speak what we know, then it’s fluid, and we don’t feel so uncomfortable. So, you know, the more we gain our knowledge, the easier it is to share it with others, and that’s what I would tell myself then, you know, don’t be so shy and just get out there and share what you know.

Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujilo

Brett:

Love it. Question number two, what’s the one book you’ve gifted or recommended the most, and the past year or so?

Susan:

The past year or so, it’s been interesting because I, you know, took a bit of a journey, you know, myself, just, you know, learning more about, you know, who I am and the spirit in me and letting God guide and, you know, had some life changes last my dad four years ago, you know, sticking by my mom and, you know, I just, you know, went into just some self-exploring for myself. And so the biggest one that, you know, is shared a lot is the Four Agreements. And it was just, you know, helps with just understanding that we’re in a bigger universe than we all think we are.

 

Brett:

Beautiful love that. Number one leadership quote or theme that you strive to live by.

Susan:

There are so many I just really feel that the position I’m at branch manager, I have, you know, five escrow officers in my branch. We have a couple of assistants, and You know, just taking the time, you know, I do handle my own desk, but really taking the time I try to help others in my branch just to help them strive to do better and to meet their goals. So that makes me feel great after they share with me that they’ve done it.

Brett:

Absolutely love it. Give me a mobile or digital resource that you strive, or that helps you to be more productive or to delegate.

Susan:

I told you when we started, I’m not too tech-savvy. But honestly, you know, zoom has been great. But, you know, again, that’s learning to get out of my comfort level, with what we’re we’re not allowed to share or be in front of the public right now. But that tool been great, just to keep the communication, you know, to feel more one on one with our clients, and helping with the education again, so just don’t be so shy to be behind, you know, the camera. And, you know, we’re working behind the scenes, but I think zoom is one that we’re helping, you know, people get comfortable with right now.

Brett:

Yeah, for sure. We’re doing it on restream.io. But zoom is usually the one I use. So, yes, that is big right now. What are you curious about right now?

Susan:

I’m curious about learning about my whole new surroundings in Roseville.

Brett:

Yeah, lifetime fitness, right, which is where we both attend, where it’s a fitness center. That’s pretty cool. And all the all of what Placer County has to offer love that last question. Um, after all your success, being a senior escrow officer, branch manager, and how fast I mean, I don’t know how many 1000 deals you’ve done over the years, helping with the deferred sales trust learning something new, which may not be easy for most escrow officers, right? Because I don’t know, maybe it is easy when it’s not, but it’s because you’re so regimented with everything you’re doing. I’m curious, how do you stay centered Susan, in your values? And then how do you stay encouraged to keep charging forward to reach new goals? 

Susan:

Again, it’s just, you know, not feeling uncomfortable with the situation and just going for it. So, you know, I started my career, you know, first transactions I closed back then just refinanced and then I grew into handling resells, and then more and more clients with 1031 exchanges. And you know, it’s just, you know, not there, there are escrow officers don’t feel comfortable, you know, handling certain transactions and I’ve had a deal transferred over from another branch, or one of my associates in my own branch saying, I don’t feel comfortable handling this, because I just don’t have the education. And I’ll help them, you know, tell them no, stick with it, but some don’t. But again, it’s just, you know, just taking the time to learn what the transaction is about. Right now, my goal is to do more commercial transactions, land deals. And that way I can gain more knowledge there. So again, this business is ever-changing. And now being in the Roseville, Sacramento area, I’m sure there’s gonna be different transactions that I’m going to learn, you know, about. 

Brett:

And, you know, it’s just a great season. I love it. It’s a great act. I love that you’re always up for the new challenges you want you to want to grow and learn more and, and get into other, you know, more commercial stuff. And I think that’s fantastic. I want to thank you for being on the show. For our listeners who want to reach out to Susan, would you give them the best place to contact you right now?

Susan:

Yeah, so I’m always available on the phone. I love taking phone calls. So my office number is in the Bay Area. It’s 650-946-2182. Otherwise, send me an email and I’ll respond to you with your question. My email address is susant@octitle.com. We are in our offices working and I do have remote access from home so I have a home office setup. So I’m a Monday through Friday girl though I’m here with Brett on a Sunday. But otherwise, I’m here to service and help with transactions whenever needed.

Brett:

Beautiful. Well, Susan, I want to thank you for being on the show. I want to thank you for sharing your experience with the different Salesforce And a bit about your story and how you help people close transactions. But I did be an amazing expert senior escrow officer Orange Coast title. And I also want to thank our listeners for listening to another episode of the capital gains tax solutions podcast. As always, we believe most high net worth individuals and those who help them struggle with clarifying their capital gains tax deferral options, not having a clear plan is the enemy, and using a proven tax deferral strategy such as the deferred sales trust to sell your high-end primary home or investment property or business or other highly appreciated asset is the best way for you to exit and defer tax. With that, please go to experttaxsecrets.com if you are a business professional, you want to learn more about the deferred sales trust. Or if you are wanting to learn for yourself for your own transaction go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com. We appreciate everyone out there please rate review, subscribe to our YouTube channel and on iTunes for our show. Thank you so much for watching. Bye now.

 

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About Susan Trujillo

Closing escrow using a Deferred Sales Trust with Susan Trujilo

Susan Trujillo is a Branch Manager & Senior Escrow Officer at Orange Coast Title based in Santa Ana, California.

Headquartered in Santa Ana, California, Orange Coast Title Company provides real estate services.

The Company offers title, resale, lending, escrow, transaction management, and other services. Orange Coast Title operates throughout the United States.

 

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